After a fairly hectic start, this morning the candidates have been back on the campaign trail this afternoon. Heather Humphreys was out and about in the leafiest of the Dublin 4 parks - Herbert Park. By contrast Catherine Connolly met up with her sponsors to the left of the political divide at the steps of the GPO ahead of what - based on Marie O Halloran’s tweet anyways - will be a fairly high profile door knocking session in the inner city....
The debate this morning was a much more lively affair than the first live debate last Monday, where Catherine Connolly was the clear winner, writes Harry McGee.
This time around the other two candidates were far more assertive and on the front foot - Heather Humphreys, in particular .
In the first debate, the Fine Gael candidate had followed a strategy of staying above the fray and was almost reserved.
This morning, her disposition was closer to when she was a TD with no hesitation in taking Connolly on.
Jim Gavin also improved but did not improve enough.
He was more concise and more to-the-point in making his arguments but he is not a natural debater or politician, and he found it hard going against two very experience opponents, who were well used to the cut-and-thrust of debate on live television.
He struggled when asked about a media report over a dispute he had with a tenant 16 years ago, where it was claimed he owed €3,300 to the tenant.
He was not it a position to answer that, saying it happened a long time ago and he would have to research it to clarify, something he promised to do. He also admitted he did not register the property, as was required.
Gavin has had a previously stellar career but so far he is finding politics a tough nut which he has not yet cracked.
Connolly was the very picture of coolness and calmness throughout but she did not get it all her own way.
The Week in Politics presenter Áine Lawlor was excellent and asked smart questions of all three, and made sure they addressed the question.
Connolly was again scrutinised very closely on her decision to employ a person who was convicted of firearms offences by the Special Criminal Court and had clearly been involved in subversive activity in 2012. Her argument is that the person had fully rehabilitated herself in prison, and that is why she was taken on.
Her decision to personally sign her in and out of the Dáil every day has been seized by her opponents as her bypassing security protocols, something she denies. She also defended the person’s membership of Éirigí, a socialist republican party opposed to the Good Friday Agreement. She said it is a registered political party.
Her responses will galvanise those who support her already while reinforcing the views of people who support other candidates that she is not the candidate for them.
The Galway West TD’s strategy has been to not disguise her radical views on many issues and it seems to be working for her, if today’s opinion poll is a bellwether.
Michael D Higgins has had out-there views as well but that did not stop people supporting him who would never subscribe to those views in a million years.
There is a portion of those who are being drawn to her who would never subscribe to her views but believe she has the correct temperament to take on the role.
As of now - unless Gavin improves dramatically - it looks like a two-horse race. Humphreys went some way to closing the gap on the back of today’s performance.
It seems her more combative approach paid dividends and quelled some doubts that her heart might not be in the race.
Jim Gavin said it was not his experience that there was a culture of looking away from problems in the Defence Forces.
The Government has committed to a tribunal into allegations of sexual misconduct, bullying and discrimination in the Defence Forces after the recommendations of a report by an independent review group (IRG).
It will examine the effectiveness of the complaints processes in the Defence Forces concerning workplace issues relating to discrimination, bullying, sexual harassment and sexual misconduct.
Reports of abusive behaviour have been made by the Women of Honour support group for former and current Defence Force members.
Speaking to reporters after an RTE televised debate on Sunday, Mr Gavin said he had a “very positive experience” in the Defence Forces.
He said he could only be accountable for his own actions and what he witnessed during his career.
“If I would have come across – somebody told me, reports to me, or I would have seen it – people know me, I would have taken swift action.”
Asked how he could say he “championed” Women of Honour without meeting them, Mr Gavin said he had made the comment when being asked about the tribunal.
“What happened is absolutely terrible and we want to see that those who were involved are going to be held accountable for their actions.”
Pressed on whether there was a culture of “looking away” from harassment and sexism in the Defence Forces, he said: “That wasn’t. I had a very positive experience in the Defence Forces and I do understand, and I have acknowledged, that that wasn’t everybody’s experience, and that’s why I welcome the tribunal.”
It is telling that the presidential debate that has just taken place has yet to set social media ablaze. We had a quick look there and it is not among the top trending topics on the platform formerly known as Twitter. Make of that what you will.
The question of Irish unity also came up in the debate. People in the Republichave “a lot of work to do to get to know neighbours” in the North Gavin said, as he questioned whether the “time is right” for a poll on unification.
“I’m not sure if the time is right. We’ve a lot of work to do with the north of Ireland,” he said.
Connolly said she would like to see a referendum during her tenure if elected president, commenting: “It has to be done by consent, with respect for all communities and all traditions.”
Ms Humphreys, a Presbyterian from Ulster, said she had “a unique understanding of both traditions” in Northern Ireland.
“Nobody knows better than me there are deep divisions in Northern Ireland, we have to deepen the understanding – that takes work.
“The Aras has been a safe place for those conversations and I will continue the work of others, of Mary McAleese.”
And that’s it. We’re done. The debate was fairly frenetic it must be said. There’s a lot to be said for keeping it tight and with just 45 minutes or so Lawlor is to be commended for keeping it all going at a fair old clip. As to the winners and losers - stand by please, our judgements will be coming presently.
The last question is about US president Donald Trump.
All the candidates are asked if they would meet him if he comes to Ireland for the Irish Open in Doonbeg next year.
They all say yes although we varying degrees of alacrity, it is fair to say.
Humphreys says “of course I would meet him” and when asked what she would say she says she “would talk to him about our values in this country, and I would also say, you know, that that US is a very important contributor to our country in terms of foreign direct investment, and it’s about how we can build better relationships with these countries because as a Minister for Business, I know how important it is.”
Connolly is asked if she would be in a position to “speak truth to power, or would you be up for flattering him the way he wants to keep him happy?”
She says she’s not all that into flattery but says that as Leas Ceann Comhairle she has shown she is “able to carry out any role to the best of my ability, professionally as possible. I met with a former president of America, Joe Biden. I certainly disagreed with his views on Israel and Palestine. And I’ve met with many, many other dignitaries. I’ve have no problem carrying out that part of my role.”
The last word - a short one - goes to Jim Gavin who confirms that he would, in fact, play golf with the US president if called upon to do so.
Glad that’s sorted out so.
Áine Lawlor presses Gavin as to what he meant when he said Israel had met all its military objectives and he struggles to give an answer - she asks him four times - and eventually he says that he Israel is committing war crimes in Gaza.
“We need to look at the cost of genocide to humanity,” Connolly says. “Israel is carrying out a genocide in Gaza before our eyes, armed by America,” she adds.
Connolly defends her position on Russia and the war in Ukraine and points out that she has “repeatedly condemned” Russia’s invasion.
“There’s a genocide going on before our eyes in Gaza,” she adds.
“We should be building up the structures of the United Nations ... and use the power within the General Assembly”.
But before that we have some snap analysis from our political correspondent Harry McGee.
“There has been a distinct change in the tone and disposition of two of the candidates in the debate. Heather Humphreys and Jim Gavin have both been much more on the front foot. It has worked for Humphreys but has had uneven results for Gavin.
“Humphreys has been far more assertive than she was in the Virgin Media News debate. If she and her team decided to stay above the fray for that debate, that position has changed this time around and she is far more assertive. She has been prepared to tackle Connolly.
“Gavin is far more clipped and to-the-point in his contributions but still comes across as halting at times. He struggled during questions about a dispute over rent in a flat that he owned 16 years ago and admitted that he did not register the property.
“Connolly is composed as she was in the first debate but is not as dominant as she was then. She came under some pressure from the excellent Áine Lawlor, who closely questioned her in relation to her hiring of a woman who had been convicted by the Special Criminal Court of possession of firearms and explosives.
The Irish question was hilarious. Connolly, a fluent speaker, answered in Irish. The other two gave “cúpla focal” and then answered in English."
Then there is the break and we are back with the international perspective.
Next up we have the Irish language question which is posed in Irish.
Connolly is asked, about the lack of a debate on TG4 and in Irish says that “it is a great source of disappointment for me that there will be no debate on TG4, even if it was a subtitled debate. Irish is our first official language. There should be at least one debate, even one with subtitles.”
In English Gavin says he learned Irish in school and went to the Gaeltacht but is no longer fluent.
He points out that the Constitution doesn’t mandate that the president has to speak Irish and says that “if it did, President McAleese wouldn’t have went into office”.
Humphreys starts out with a few words of Irish and says that if she becomes president she will do more to learn more.
Humphreys is asked about housing and her apparent disagreement with the President Michael D Higgins’ who said housing is “our great great great failure”.
She expresses sympathy for those who can’t find a home and says “we need to do more in terms of housing”.
She is asked about her record on the Family and Care referendum, drink driving legislation and disability services and says she did not oppose drink driving legislation and actually voted for it “twice”.
“I did not oppose [drink driving legislation] at Cabinet – and Cabinet is confidential – and that’s the bottom line here, and I’m not going to breach that confidentiality. I did not oppose the legislation. I voted for it, as I said, not once but twice: You should not be drinking and driving, and that is it. End of story.”
She also says she has done “so much over the years” to help those with disabilities.
Next up is the Gavin’s controversy in the week just past.
He says he is looking into reports he owes a former tenant €3,000 but he says he does not have “all the information” as yet.
Lawlor points out that most people would readily know if they owed someone three grand or not and he says the “matter was over 16 years ago. It was a very stressful time for myself and my family. Like a lot of families and couples, we came into financial difficulty at that time.”
He says that “If it happened, I’m very sorry that it happened. I’m looking into it and I will deal with it with urgency.”
Catherine Connolly defends the hiring of a woman with a criminal conviction.
Humphreys interjects to say the political party, Éirígí that the woman belonged to was opposed to the Good Friday Agreement and says the woman was charged before the Special Criminal Court.
She says she believes the person was in Leinster House for six months before there was garda vetting.
Connolly responds by says no rules were broken.
“This woman served her sentence ... she was the perfect candidate,” she says and adds that she did not know anything about garda surveillance. “This person was signed in by me every day” as the vetting process was taking place, she adds.
She says the woman is “an innocent person being used to cause me damage” and describes her as “a success story of the prison system”.
Heather Humphreys is asked about Irish unity and says she has a unique understanding of both traditions in Northern Ireland.
“Nobody knows better than me there are deep divisions in Northern Ireland, we have to deepen the understanding that takes work.
“The Áras has been a safe place for those conversations and I will continue the work of others, of Mary McAleese.”
Gavin says he believes everyone that lives on the island “should have a vote” in the presidential election and says that the president is “not a politician” he will “keep highlighting this issue”.
Catherine Connolly also says she thinks people in Northern Ireland should have a vote in the Presidential election.
All the candidates are asked if they are in favour of reforming the nomination process.
Humphreys talks about the process and does not really address the question. Connolly says she understands calls for reform but says she is has a conservative view on the issue and Gavin says he is in favour of a reform.
Heather Humphreys is first asked if her heart is in the race and asked to address talk that she “would she rather be at home with her family enjoying her retirement? Do you really want to be president,” Lawlor asks.
“I want to be president. When you apply for any job, people look at your experience and I have the experience to do this job. I was a minister for 10 years…
“As Minister for Arts I supported a creative Ireland, I supported a rollout of investments in our cultural institutions.As Minister for Business I travelled the world opening doors for Irish businesses with the IDA and with Enterprise Ireland.
“Opening doors so that they could get new markets. So I’m experienced in terms of international relations and then when it comes to people as minister for Social Protection, I stood up for people and I rolled out budgets that put money into people’s pockets when they needed it.”
Catherine Connolly is asked if she would only be a candidate of the left and not a President for all given her road to nomination.
In response she says she is an independent candidate and “as president, I will serve this country with dignity and with respect and I will listen to the people of Ireland. I think we’re at a crucial juncture in our history, where we need a voice that has courage, a voice, as president, who has courage, a voice that will not be afraid to speak out when that’s necessary, a voice for peace.”
Lawlor points out that as president she will have to work with the government of the day and would she be able to do that with her political background and with the backing she has?
“My political background has been very inclusive. I’ve been elected on three occasions. I was elected as the first female, Ceann Comhairle because of the backing of all sides of the house. I would look on myself as an absolutely independent candidate. but inclusive in the every sense of the word.”
First up is Jim Gavin who is asked why should voters choose him when there are other
“much more politically experienced and therefore better qualified” candidates on the slate.
He starts by saying there is “a lot of division in the world at home” and says he believes the “President has a positive role”.
Lawlor cuts him off and points out the others probably believe that too. She presses him on why he should be given the nod.
“I’ve shown in my career to date that I’ve brought people together from various backgrounds for a common cause, for a common unity”.
He points out that “the president of Ireland is the first citizen of Ireland. Okay, not the first politician”.
That is the first sound bite of the debate out of the way anyway.
And we’re off - or nearly. Paul Cunningham is doing a bit of an election re-cap. In the meantime we can tell you that all three candidates are seated on a blue couch facing Áine Lawlor and all three of them look to be wearing sober navy blue suits. In terms of wardrobe choices then it’s honours even.
All the candidates have now arrived in Montrose for the second television debate of the campaign. And what was the order of their arrival you ask Well, Connolly was first with Humphreys in second and Gavin coming into the studio last.
While last week’s debate was just a bit lacklustre, things might be a bit more spicey today what with all the news that the last seven days has brought us.
First there were the series of missteps by the Gavin campaign. Drone footage was shot without the appropriate permissions having been secured for two events. That might have been less embarrassing if Gavin’s day job was not as a senior figure at the Irish Aviation Authority.
Meanwhile, Gavin has frequently highlighted his service as an Air Corps officer during the campaign, but there were more red faces during the week as Fianna Fáil had to take down some campaign social media posts relating to the Defence Forces - including one featuring uniformed personnel - as it is an apolitical organisation.
Humphreys did a radio interview with RTÉ on Wednesday where she denied Tánaiste Simon Harris had pressured her to drop controversial disability reforms contained in a Green Paper during her time in the Department of Social Protection, saying: “I decided that myself. I’ve worked very hard to help carers and disabled people.”
She said she did consultations with people, “And there was genuine concerns out there on the Green Paper. So I did not proceed with it.”
Meanwhile, by Thursday, Catherine Connolly was defending her hiring of a woman, Ursula Ní Shionnain, who had a conviction for unlawful possession of firearms to work in Leinster House.
A prominent member of the socialist republican Éirígí group, Ní Shionnain was convicted by the Special Criminal Court and served four and a half years of a six-year sentence. Connolly told RTÉ Radio that Ní Shionnain worked for her for six months in Leinster House.
“She was absolutely perfect for the job, and I took her on,” she said. “I’m particularly proud that I represent a society that gives people a second chance, a society that shows care and compassion. It’s really important.”
She said Ní Shionnain had served her time, had been released early, and had been a model prisoner. Asked whether she supported Éirígí, which campaigned against the Belfast Agreement, Connolly said she did not. The left-wing parties supporting Connolly’s campaign all backed her on the issue, while Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael were highly critical of her.
You might consider the following a public service announcement: the deadline for applying to the Register of Electors in order to vote is Tuesday, October 7th, at 11.59pm, the Electoral Commission has said.
To vote in the election, a person must be an Irish citizen aged 18 or over, be registered to vote, and ordinarily be resident in Ireland.
Those intending to register to vote or update or confirm their existing details can do so at checktheregister.ie.
Polling information cards will be sent to the address of each registered elector with details of their local polling station.
If you not up for the High Noon presidential debate you will be able to catch it at a few other times today.
While we wait to see what happens in today’s debate we may as well revisit the most dramatic and consequential presidential debate in the history of the Irish state and the one which introduced many people to the unreliability of social media as a platform for truth.
It was 2011 and Ireland was still reeling from the great economic unpleasantness of 2008.
Both Sinn Féin’s Martin MGuinness and Fine Gael’s Gay Mitchell were floundering in the polls while independent would-be president Sean Gallagher was soaring.
He had built his grass-roots campaign on a life spent as an entrepreneur and community activist and had played down any previous connections he may have had with Fianna Fáil, the party in power before and during the great economic unpleasantness.
Gallagher - a regular on the Dragons’ Den TV programme - had managed to establish enough distance from his old party not to be contaminated by it while still remaining close enough to be attractive to Fianna Fáil voters, who had no other candidate to support.
Days before polling, two polls put him on 40 per cent. After coming from nowhere, Gallagher was on the brink of the presidency.
But then came the iceberg.
In a debate on the Monday night before polling day, hosted by Pat Kenny’s Frontline programme on RTÉ, McGuinness began to raise questions about Gallagher’s past fundraising for Fianna Fáil.
In response the front-runner was hesitant and vague but his poor responses were hardly fatal. There was talk of a man giving him a cheque for the party, talk Gallagher did his best to bat away.
Then Kenny announced that the McGuinness campaign had tweeted that the man who gave Gallagher a €5,000 cheque would appear at a Sinn Féin press conference the following day.
It was a bombshell.
But it was also completely fake - fake news before it was really a thing. The tweet had come from a fake Twitter account. There was no press conference and no bagman.
But the damage had been done and while Gallagher spent the following day trying to clarify things, the RTÉ programme had tied him to Fianna Fáil and that contamination proved fatal.
A subsequent review found that the programme was unfair, and Gallagher would take significant damages from RTÉ. The review also found the programme had given Michael D Higgins a softer ride than other candidates. Support lurched spectacularly in the final three days and Higgins won handsomely.
Will see such fireworks today? It hardly seems likely. And would we even want to? Absolutely not.
Interestingly there will a question in Irish in todays debate although candidates will have the option of answering in English. Not sure that will make any difference to anyone but it is worth noting in any event.
There will be plenty of eyeballs on The Week in Politics as RTÉ One this afternoon as Áine Lawlor moderates a debate between Independent candidate Catherine Connolly, Jim Gavin of Fianna Fáil and Heather Humphreys of Fine Gael.
Key reads
- A beginner’s guide to the presidential election
- Meet the three candidates who’ll be on the ballot
- Olivia O’Leary: Heather Humphreys would bring this one vital quality to the role of president
Ahead of today’s debate, it might be worth a quick look back at last week’s Virgin Media rumble – if rumble isn’t too strong a word for it (and it is far too strong a word for it, truth be told).
The debate was not exactly one for the ages and – as our Political Editor Pat Leahy noted last week, “it was less like a high-octane presidential election debate and more like a slightly more polite – and longer – than usual version of Virgin’s regular weeknight politics show, with a panel of guests that were in turn more cagey than usual.”
Catherine Connolly was the most comfortable in the format while Heather Humphreys was cautious if composed and keenly focused on avoiding any mistakes. Gavin struggled to make an impact in the first half of the debate, and seemed to be knocked off course by some questions put to him.
The consensus at the end of it all was Connolly came out on top, something that might have been reflected in the Sindo’s poll.
You’d imagine that all three candidates will have started their day reading – or at least skimming - the Sunday Independent and it will have made some much happier than others.
The paper has a poll which suggests that Catherine Connolly is currently leading the field in the race for the Áras and she is in front by a fairly hefty margin too. Heather Humphreys is in seconds but Jim Gavin has a whole lot of work to do if he is to remain in the running beyond the first count.
The Independent Galway TD is on 32 per cent with Fine Gael’s candidate having the support of 23 per cent of the electorate. The former Dublin football manager and Fianna Fáil standard bearer meanwhile is on just 15 per cent with his support among female votes falling to 10 per cent.
The second televised debate of the presidential campaign takes place today at what some folk might consider an ungodly hour.
Midday on a Sunday is hardly primetime by any stretch of the imagination but there will still be plenty of eyeballs on The Week in Politics as RTÉ One this afternoon as Áine Lawlor moderates the debate between Independent candidate Catherine Connolly, Jim Gavin of Fianna Fáil and Heather Humphreys of Fine Gael.
It will also give us the chance to pepper this Live Story with the words High Noon and shoehorn in some exciting cowboy references where they clearly do not belong. If that does happen, we can only apologise.
The debate is being broken into two parts with the first looking at role of the President at home and the second widening the lens to focus at the international dimension of the office.
