A majority of Public Accounts Committee (PAC) members has opposed the release of evidence given to it by Garda whistleblower Maurice McCabe.
Serving Garda Sgt McCabe gave evidence around the alleged improper termination of penalty points to TDs at a private sitting of the committee late last month. His solicitors have asked for a transcript of his evidence to be given to him.
However, the clerk to the committee said his advice was that the matter would have to be referred to the Oireachtas Committee on Procedure and Privileges if the PAC decided to accede to the request.
There were tense exchanges between committee members today over the possible release of the transcript: while the majority of members were against its release, independent TD Shane Ross was insistent that Sgt McCabe's transcript should be released saying it would be "absurd" not to allow him to view his own transcript of his own evidence.
“By giving it to Sgt McCabe we are not releasing it publicly, we’re releasing it to him,” Mr Ross said.
“The idea that we could bury it now and absolutely refuse to release this transcript is unthinkable. There’s a great deal of interest in what’s in this transcript. The reason...why we held it in private was in case irresponsible allegations were made against individuals - no such allegations were made” he said.
However, John Deasy of Fine Gael strongly opposed its release saying that, in providing the transcript of a private meeting, the committee would be crossing over into "the political paranormal".
He added that the release of the transcript would constitute a fundamental change in the way the Oireachtas committee does its business.
He accused Mr Ross of having an “insatiable thirst for publicity”: “This is less about transparency and the fullness of truth and more about getting on the 6 o’clock news,” Mr Deasy said.
He said that, in the last five minutes of last month’s meeting at which Sgt McCabe was the chief witness, the Comptroller and Auditor General, Seamus McCarthy had “debunked quite a bit of it as regards the number of penalty points that were written off”.
“Whereas the theory from Sgt McCabe was that tens of thousands of penalty points were being written off the C&AG definitively made the case that we’re talking about hundreds”.
Fine Gael TD Eoghan Murphy said, because the transcript could not be released in a redacted form, “we can’t publish the transcripts at all”.
His party colleague Simon Harris said it would be "absurd" to release the transcript without "at the very least seeking further legal advice" adding that "if we start publishing private meetings why didn't we have the private meeting in public".
Robert Dowds of the Labour Party said the committee should seek the advice of the parliamentary legal advisor on the matter.
His party colleague Gerald Nash also said legal advice should be sought. He said the committee needed "to proceed with caution" as the committee would "no longer have control over the transcript".
Mr Nash said he “resented” the claim by Mr Ross that the committee was attempting to “bury” anything which he described as a “slur on members of the committee” and should be withdrawn.
Vice chairman of the committee, KieranO’Donnell, who chaired the meeting, concluded that, “taking all matters into account, the fact that it was private meeting, the fact that it would involved an unredacted script being provided, that the view of the committee its that it would not at this time be referred to the (Committee on Procedure and Privileges) for decision”.
In reply Mr Ross said “for the reasons I have already given I dissent absolutely and totally from that decision”.