When the New York Times’ (NYT) Hard Fork podcast turns its attention to artificial intelligence, its two hosts begin with familiar throat-clearing. Kevin Roose tells listeners he is an NYT journalist, and therefore employed by an organisation currently suing OpenAI for alleged copyright infringement. His co-host, Casey Newton, is not an NYT employee, but dutifully informs us his boyfriend works at Anthropic, another major AI company.
These routine disclosures have become something of a running joke. They are also a reminder that such facts matter.
Since this is a column about questions of transparency and conflicts of interest in Irish media, it falls to me to acknowledge that Inside Politics, the Irish Times podcast I present, operates in the same marketplace as Path to Power, until last week co-hosted by Matt Cooper and Ivan Yates.
These things matter because, especially in Ireland, the media and political worlds are so small that those who occupy them presume everyone (or, more perniciously, everyone who matters) knows them already.
At the weekend, Cooper announced Yates had left Path to Power. Some unkind observers likened this to Ernie Wise dismissing Eric Morecambe. To be fair, that comparison did capture a certain truth about the show’s dynamic, with Cooper as straight man to Yates’s barstool ebullience. The formula has proved entertaining enough to build an audience, including for its subscription-only shows.
The controversy that prompted the break-up was less jolly. Yates had been engaged by Fianna Fáil to provide media training to the party’s ill-starred presidential candidate, Jim Gavin. He did not tell the producers of Path to Power.
The podcast is made by NK Productions, owned by celebrity agent Noel Kelly, a central figure in the Ryan Tubridy payments affair at RTÉ 2½ years ago. Kelly and Yates have worked together closely for years.
The revelation in Saturday’s Irish Independent triggered a flurry of archive searches at more than one broadcaster. RTÉ, where Yates appears periodically as a commentator, was quick to note he had not been on any of its programmes during the official presidential campaign period, when stricter neutrality rules laid down by media regulator Coimisiún na Meán apply.
Newstalk acknowledged Yates had acted as a stand-in presenter for three days during the campaign without informing it of the conflict.
The real issue is not just whether particular rules were broken during a defined campaign window. It is about how Irish media handles commercial and political conflicts of interest in general. And the answer, as far as viewers and listeners are concerned, is that we don’t really know.
Full-time employees of major media outlets will normally be subject to internal policies on outside work. Contractors might also face restrictions. RTÉ has belatedly tightened its rules on external commercial activities, which may have contributed to some recent exits to the independent sector, where the rules are believed to be more relaxed. But the details are rarely visible from the outside.
The affair highlights such concerns because it involves front-line politics. But there are other high-profile broadcasters, columnists and pundits who also act as consultants or communications trainers for various clients.
None of this is inherently unethical. Everyone has the right to earn a living and specialist knowledge is valuable. The difficulty arises when the same individuals appear on air as disinterested analysts. You do not often hear a Hard Fork-style disclaimer before they speak. Perhaps none are needed because conflicts are always scrupulously avoided. Or perhaps not.
The case of Path to Power is slightly different. Cooper and Yates launched the podcast in December 2023, adopting the two-hander format honed by UK producer Goalhanger, creators of The Rest is History and a string of other lucrative shows. Argument and banter, leavened by the occasional revelation of insider knowledge.
The jury is still out on whether the paid subscription model works for politics in the small Irish market. NK Productions also stated that Yates had been due to depart at the year’s end anyway. That rather undercuts the drama of a principled bust-up and hints at financial pressures. We will find out soon enough if Ernie can survive without Eric.
[ Ivan Yates work on Gavin campaign sparks political and media falloutOpens in new window ]
The episode also highlights an emerging regulatory gap. Calling It, Newstalk’s election podcast with Yates, fell under Coimisiún na Meán. Inside Politics, as part of The Irish Times, is subject to the rules of the Press Council and Press Ombudsman. Path to Power, like other independently produced audio podcasts, is outside either system. Except when it’s also put out on YouTube. Go figure.
As the story developed, it became clear that Gavin was not the only Fianna Fáil figure to experience the Yates method. Minister for Housing James Browne confirmed that he, too, had received coaching.
There is a particular kind of Irish political controversy that quickly collapses into knowing sniggers and the shrugging acceptance that everyone knows everyone else. As a commentator, Yates has occupied that zone for most of his broadcasting career. So there is an undeniable comedic twist in the fact that Gavin and Browne have – to put it mildly – failed to dazzle in their media performances despite his coaching.
But it’s not really that funny. Our media and political elites remain too entangled. Terry Prone, grande dame of Irish media training, acknowledges in her recently published and very entertaining memoir that we have grown too used to the seamless transition whereby journalists move from interrogating politicians to advising them.
That process erodes trust. And trust, as the media never tire of reminding everyone, is fragile. That’s why disclaimers and declarations of potential conflicts are necessary. Because they treat audiences with respect. Irish media would benefit from doing that more often.
